James Toney vs. Wladimir Klitschko: This Fight Needs To Happen!

[Gsus]

19.05.2006 — By Valerij “Rudolph” Calmic: The famed Emmanuel Steward made an intriguing hint about Wladimir Klitschko’s nearest plans in his recent interview, saying, in part, while the other champions are busy, his pupil may fight James Toney some time around September this year. He explained the choice of James Toney with the fact that the others will be more difficult to negotiate with.

Let’s suppose, for the sake of argument, Toney agrees. Incredibly, if this bout comes off, this would be the 3rd shot at a heavyweight title for Toney, in a little over a year. Of course there’s a question of Toney’s ratings, since he doesn’t appear to be listed within the IBF’s top 15. Although, if the money is right, he’ll definitely pop up somewhere between numbers 5 and 2, I’d be willing to bet. Besides, Toney has already previously leap-frogged Oleg Maskaev in the WBC ratings, when Toney fought for the title instead of Maskaev, who was just fresh out of an elimination victory.

Nevertheless, the question remains whether or not the IBF would sanction this bout between their champion Wladimir Klitschko and James Toney. However, there’s another way out of the situation. This fight could be made as an IBO championship match, of which Klitschko is also a title holder. James Toney occupies position number 6 in the IBO rankings, if I’m not mistaken. However, neither of the fighters will get many accolades for such a “championship.”

Thank God, we have The Ring Magazine. Many think that The Ring’s ratings and titles are much more objective than all others, and they’re right, simply because The Ring doesn’t charge any commission fees for their ratings and titles. This excludes any possibility of corruption. This doesn’t exclude subjectivity, of course, but unlike the alphabet bodies, The Ring cares about its image and reputation. For the time being, their heavyweight belt is currently vacant. Wladimir and Toney are ranked at numbers 1 and 3 respectively. What do we get from a fight between these two? A long awaited Ring champion, that’s what. Now that’s something worth fighting for, don’t you think?

But why is Steward so sure of Klitschko’s victory? Isn’t it the same Steward who not so long ago suggested that no one bet against Toney? I decided to try and think about this match-up as if it was a done deal.
Place of fight

Let’s start with the place. Where should it happen, in USA or Germany? I think Toney must answer that question. Like Chris Byrd, he’s not getting any younger. And, like Byrd, he’s probably thinking about a well deserved rest. Like Byrd, he’ll probably require a little bonus over the promoter’s guaranteed minimum.

Everybody knows that Klitschko can sell out an arena in Germany, even if he fights Serena Williams. Whereas, James Toney is moderately popular in the U.S.. But there’s something that can turn this fight from and “interesting match-up” into a mega-event. I’m talking about Toney’s big mouth.

After having studied the attitudes on a few American based web-sites and forums, I came to an interesting conclusion: the usually patriotic American fight fans can’t wait for someone to shove Toney’s sometimes controversial comments back down his throat. No doubt, they are ready to support anyone in this deed, even a much hated European with a “glass jaw and no heart,” a comment that they make quite often about Wladimir. If so, the location of the bout doesn’t matter at all, for tickets will sell in both Germany and the States.

Psychological war:

Now, about the mental part of the fight. Rest assured that Toney will do his usual thing to help sell the fight; i.e., cursing, swearing, perhaps, talking about Klitschko’s relatives, reminding him of all his losses, making up stories about Wladimir quitting.

Let’s assume that whether Klitschko gets mad or scared, it’s already a small victory for Toney. But I wouldn’t count on that. Today an angry Klitschko is something very different from what he was like under Fritz Sdunek. There will never be an old fashioned non-stop blizzard of punches, no matter who’s in front of him. If Toney thinks that Klitschko will rush him like someone named Vassily Jirov, he can forget about it. And if he manages to scare Wladimir with his mental attacks, then he won’t get a convincing victory anyway. Klitschko will run, jab, hold, run and jab again, and the judges will at least score it a draw.

Shape and stamina:

Well, let’s be honest here, getting himself into decent shape has been Toney’s weakest spot at heavyweight while campaigning as a heavyweight, and as many of you already know, fat heavies are said to have a spare tire around their wastes. That said, Toney’s problem is that his spare tire doesn’t just seem to come from his “hatchback, but rather, it looks more like it was stolen from a passenger bus or a huge quarry truck. I don’t know about you, but it seems he gets heavier and heavier with every fight, regardless of the circumstances. With that kind of track record, the chances are that by fight time, the 5’9” Toney might even outweigh the 6’6” 240 lbs. Klitschko. On top of that, Toney’s habit of 4 or 5 cigars per day doesn’t exactly improve you stamina, either, I would say.

As for Wladimir’s physical form, I expect everything to be in tip-top shape, with not a bit of flab around his midsection. The camp at Poconos always keeps its doors wide open for such customers. I believe that their shape will be the defining factor in this bout. Why? I’ll explain a bit later, under “The fight.”

What can be suggested to James Toney? Well, first of all, to put a hard steel chain around his fridge, along with a big lock, and then to swallow the key. Secondly, he needs to start hitting the treadmill as soon as possible, if he hopes to take off the weight by September. Or better yet, RIGHT NOW.

There is only one suggestion to Wladimir: he must get himself prepared for full 12 rounds of a high paced fight, with lots of action because Toney will likely apply a lot of pressure from beginning to end. Further, Wladimir must deny Toney any chances to rest during the fight, something that he likes to do, often exhibited by his laying against the ropes, giving himself a muchly needed breather.

Technique:

Both fighters are technically sound, there’s no arguing about that. However, at least Toney’s technique leaves no questions, since he’s a highly skilled fighter that few fighters can match. As for Klitschko being a stiff fighter, only those who still can’t tell the brothers apart say that. Yet, regardless of what people say, technique alone doesn’t win fights. Rather, it’s the physical capabilities and how a fighter multiplies them with his technique is what matters most.

Wladimir Klitschko is a masterful long distance boxer, there’s no doubt about it. Though not well known, Wladimir, has never really trailed in a fight, as his ability to control a fight with his left lab, left hook, keep him well ahead, even in the fights he lost by knockout. Really, there’s only one way to beat Wladimir, and that’s by stopping him, otherwise, you’re in for a long night of eating jabs.

Essentially, Toney’s realm is a mid to close range fighter, who is more of a throwback fighter to the fighters of old, when they gutted it out on the inside, throwing devastating body punches. This is understandable, certainly, given Toney’s severe height disadvantage and relatively short arms, even in light heavyweight standards. However, Toney knows how to fight on the outside, as well. For example, he knows how to throw a well-timed jab, which is kind of a strange looking jab, I might add, not by the book. He throws it from his waist, with his elbow higher than his fist, but still, it’s a very well-timed and an effective jab, all the same. Toney also knows how throw an unexpected right swing over the top. However, his growing girth is clearly becoming an obstacle, because this counter punch is quite physically demanding from the way Toney throws it. I mean, it takes effort and time to first dodge the opponent’s jab and then to shift his weight from the back foot onto the front foot and so forth. Against Rahman, however, this punch was not as effective as in Toney’s previous bouts, for when he would attempt to throw it, he often missed and lost balance, which made him run half way across the ring in order not to fall. Likewise, there was a small episode when Rahman was able to counter with his own right hand after a missed right swing from Toney, and lucky for him, Toney had his left hand up, thus blocking Rahman’s shot.

Not surprisingly, I feel that Wladimir’s work at long range is something very pleasant to see. Once I was thinking about musical analogies among boxers. I see James Toney as a saxophone player, whereas Nikolai Valuev is probably the stand-up bass, and, as for Wladimir Klitschko, I think he reminds me of a rhythm-guitar, in the sense that, all he does is very sharp, accurate, and right by the notes. Sometimes he gives out short but very solid “solos,” like some rhythm-guitarists like to do from time to time, pleasing the listeners and surprising the lead-guitarist.

About the defense:

Everything is very simple with Wladimir’s defense. For instance, he blocks most punches, while at the same time, jumping back away from danger; he has also developed a very reliable block against a left hook (thank you, Manny), and when in close quarters, he holds and applies little dirty tricks, such as a quick uppercut to the head. It’s not a knockout punch by any means, but it definitely gets his opponent’s attention. On the other hand, Toney’s defense is something completely different. First of all, he tries to dodge punches in such a way as to put himself into position to throw a counter right hand. Something that he used quite effectively against Rahman, because he simply doesn’t seem to know how to throw a jab without jumping forward a yard, leaving himself open for Toney’s right hand counter. As a rule Rahman would miss with the jab, while Toney didn’t even need to take a step forward before Rahman was already within Toney’s range. Thus, Toney’s defense is the beginning of his attack. Wladimir, indeed, is quite different. He either defends himself, or attacks, although rarely does he do both at the same time.
The fight

I won’t write much about this, other than saying that a well prepared Wladimir will need to move the entire bout, never stopping even for a moment. Moreover, he needs to stay busy, firing off constant punches, if he wants to come out on top. Whereas, Toney loses simply because he throws less punches, can’t keep up with the pace, takes pauses and experiences difficulties with reaching Wladimir.

For his part, Wladimir simply has much longer arms, is much taller and moves around the ring faster than many would like to admit. So, with all these assets on his side, will this victory spell victory for the big Ukrainian? You bet. However, Wladimir supporters should get themselves prepared for statements like, “This was a marathon, not a boxing match” and “He didn’t fight like a man,” and other such nonsense from fans of Toney. No doubt, Sam Peter’s fans will grow in numbers, and there will appear a crowded James Toney fan-club in the politically correct Russia.
My official prediction.

Some might say, “what kind of a prediction are you making where there is no knockout on either side?” I understand your displeasure, especially since John Ruiz, a relatively light puncher, was able to land his jab and left-right combinations, quite frequently in his bout with Toney, and even rocking Toney with one of his right hands. Further, some might people might also say, “what if Wladimir hits him with his patented left jab, right cross? Well, the thing is, James Toney may be loud, but he’s no fool. I felt that he deliberately let Ruiz get away with a lot of punches, simply because he knew: “I’ll still out punch this Teddy Bear, no matter what he throws and how many times he connects.” Yet with Hasim Rahman, it was already a totally different story. Toney was much more diligent at slipping Rahman’s jabs and power punches. This tells us only one thing: James Toney never underestimates his foes, no matter what he says in public.

However, the above description is not my official prediction. My prediction is like this: Toney takes this fight seriously and goes into intensive preparation, realizing, that this isn’t the kind of fight you can win on talent alone. And that’s when he pulls a ligament, tears a biceps or gets stomach ulcer. And if this happens (and I’m pretty sure it will), I have a question. Will the Klitschko supporters have the right to say that Wladimir sent Toney into retirement? I mean, almost no one denied themselves the pleasure of patting Rahman on the shoulder for “retiring” an injured Vitali Klitshko, right?

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=7007&more=1

[Bighead]

If they fight I see this fighting ending in Klitchko's favor. I'd really like to see this fight though, I like Toney a lot. I've watched quite a few of his older fights, and he was a fun boxer to watch.

[Toffa]

Wladimir by bloody penetration.

[Pancake Sprawl]

what is the size differential? like 10in? as good as Toney is he can't do what he likes to do, and that's stand in front of Wlad. so I pick Wlad by TKO rd 6

[lenny_888]

this is a chance to see toney ktfo! looking forward to it

[Jazavac]

Klitch tko 9.

[crampage]

This would be a massacre for Wlad.

[Mr Boogaloo]

Hopefully, Toney will be scared enough of this fight to train properly.

We need a cheeseburger emoticon.

To be honest, I think that even if James turns up in super-fit shape, he'll have a rough time against such a big, jabbing HW.

[Pancake Sprawl]

Originally Posted by Mr Boogaloo

Hopefully, Toney will be scared enough of this fight to train properly.

We need a cheeseburger emoticon.

To be honest, I think that even if James turns up in super-fit shape, he'll have a rough time against such a big, jabbing HW.

yeah, the size and power of Wlad will be too much, even for an in shape Toney.

[Gsus]

Meh, if toney is in shape, toney wins. If he comes in out of shape like he was against Rock then wlad will beat him, but an in shape toney is wlads worst nightmare, wlad can only hope to land a big shot on a guy that doesnt get hit and has never been knocked out in 77 fights. Good luck with that.

[crampage]

Originally Posted by Gsus

Meh, if toney is in shape, toney wins. If he comes in out of shape like he was against Rock then wlad will beat him, but an in shape toney is wlads worst nightmare, wlad can only hope to land a big shot on a guy that doesnt get hit and has never been knocked out in 77 fights. Good luck with that.

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA X100

In 77 fights Toney has never fought someone as big and hard hitting as Wlad. Its the total opposite. Wlad is TONEYS worst nightmare. This is the worst fight Toney could ever take. Toney doesn't get hit?? WTF? Toney gets hit LOTS. Toney dodges some punches, but he takes tons of shots as well. Wlad wins this in his sleep, believe it.

[Gsus]

Reverse your own logic man, you argument is toney has never fought anybody like wlad, but who has wlad fought that is anything like toney? Er nobody. So its the same deal. Neither have fought anybody like each other. Toney gets hits lots? Which fights have you been watching? Ruiz hardly landed a glove, holyfield didnt land shit, rahman ended up with 200 landed punches to the kidney, and rydell booker lost every single round without landing a shot. So tell me, which fights does toney get hits LOTS as you say? Considering hes known for being one of the best defensive fighters in the game, its strange that you feel he gets hits lots since that would make him a very poor defensive fighter, which as im sure you know, is not actually correct.

[treelo]

meh

Toney hasnt been in shape for about 8 years

[Pancake Sprawl]

all i have to say is Wlad can afford to get hit by Toney, i'm not so sure Toney can afford to get hit by Wlad though. it'll make for a very intresting fight though.

[crampage]

Originally Posted by Gsus

Reverse your own logic man, you argument is toney has never fought anybody like wlad, but who has wlad fought that is anything like toney? Er nobody. So its the same deal. Neither have fought anybody like each other. Toney gets hits lots? Which fights have you been watching? Ruiz hardly landed a glove, holyfield didnt land shit, rahman ended up with 200 landed punches to the kidney, and rydell booker lost every single round without landing a shot. So tell me, which fights does toney get hits LOTS as you say? Considering hes known for being one of the best defensive fighters in the game, its strange that you feel he gets hits lots since that would make him a very poor defensive fighter, which as im sure you know, is not actually correct.

Chris Bryd......twice, both horrible beatdowns. Chris is in fact a few inches taller than Toney, and fought a number of big heavys. None hammered him like Wlad.

[Ura-Nage]

Toney doesn't take enough pride in himself to win this one. Even though he is very crafty, Toney does get hit. Its just not clean. A huge puncher like Wlad...I don't think he has to hit James all that cleanly to hurt him.

He's also shown he can be manhandled. I wonder if Wlad would use his superior size and strength in that way if he fought Toney. He probably could win the fight on his jab alone though and huge right hand. Toney just isn't elusive enough imo. He is way to out of shape. That shoulder roll and counter will work on Ruiz, but he had a hard enough time with a clueless Rock. Wlad is a very good big man. I don't see it ending well for James.

Heres a serious question. Toney sounds like he is showing the effects of punches...is it that, or is it the obesity? He doesn't sound good.

[Pancake Sprawl]

imo i think Toney is either seriously crazy or crazy like a fox cuz he says and does some weird stuff.

[Gsus]

Originally Posted by crampage

Chris Bryd......twice, both horrible beatdowns. Chris is in fact a few inches taller than Toney, and fought a number of big heavys. None hammered him like Wlad.

Byrd is a southpaw, and fights nothing like toney, he runs around the ring all the time, so that isnt a very good comparison. Nobody would ever confuse toney and byrds style with being similar.

[Gsus]

Originally Posted by Ura-Nage

Toney doesn't take enough pride in himself to win this one. Even though he is very crafty, Toney does get hit. Its just not clean. A huge puncher like Wlad...I don't think he has to hit James all that cleanly to hurt him.

He's also shown he can be manhandled. I wonder if Wlad would use his superior size and strength in that way if he fought Toney. He probably could win the fight on his jab alone though and huge right hand. Toney just isn't elusive enough imo. He is way to out of shape. That shoulder roll and counter will work on Ruiz, but he had a hard enough time with a clueless Rock. Wlad is a very good big man. I don't see it ending well for James.

Heres a serious question. Toney sounds like he is showing the effects of punches...is it that, or is it the obesity? He doesn't sound good.

I have to disagree seb, for a start, you have to hit guys with good chins cleanly to get an effect, toney by all accounts has a great chin, so wlad will need to land some good shots to hurt toney. I agree toney can be pushed about in the heavyweight ring, its logical since hes only 5ft 9 and weighs less then his opponents, its the same way with all guys moving up to heavyweight they dont have the size to compete, but they do have the skills.

As for wlads jab winning this fight, you could be right, but also you might be missing one of toneys greatest skills, avoiding the jab. He has made an entire career out of slipping jabs and countering, what makes wlad any different apart from his height? Wlad is one dimensional IMO, if his original plan doesnt hapen, he falls apart.

Also another thing you might have forgot is wlads suspect stamina and chin. You really think he could take toney countering him with those big right hands and its gonna have no effect? Also another big IF, if toney is in shape, there is no question as to who to guy with better stamina will be. Toney finishes strong in every fight i have ever seen him in except for the rock fight. That was the worst performance from toney since drake fuckin thadzi.

On the effects of punches thing, i believe it was the weight, you could hear toney wheezing after about round 2, i dont think he showed any reaction to the shots rahman was throwing though, more just he was out of breath very early on in that fight.

[Mr Boogaloo]

Gsus, I think you're mad. Let's bet

Toney wins, I'll send you a copy of Cage Rage 15.

Wlad wins, you put a big fat cheeseburger up as your av for a week.

Deal?